Internal mode or Host mode?

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teacue
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 9:20 am

Internal mode or Host mode?

Post by teacue » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:52 am

Now this is a question of faith ;)

I would be interested to know what the D16 developper think of this:
There is a wide spreaded believe that harware units like MPC 60 or TR808/909 have a "better" timing than software in the sense that they would have something "special" that makes them better "groove" than software within a host.

Here some of the most commonly founded reasons:
. a more solid Midi Timing for Midi units or an other kind of synchronisation resolution for non-midi units
. some others say the contrary and praise some subtle irregularities in hardware Midi-Timing
. some others attribute the magic to special swing/shuffle/quantizing settings
. some others to the fact that the sounds are better optimized for grooving (length of the sound, filtering ...)

From my own experience with hardware sequencer, I still have a Sequential Circuit Drumtraks that I used a lot in the past.
It is a completely sample based Drum sequencer (like the little sister of the LinnDrum).
I had several times to transfer songs made with this unit to software and so I had to compare.
I always had and still have the feeling that the Midi-Timing of the Drumtracks is more regular, as if there would be almost no irregularity.
BTW I always used in the past the Drumtracks as master and the Midi host was synced to the Drumtracks through a special sync signal.
I founded a timing difference when I midi-triggered the sounds from the host.

To my view, tweaking the sound (decay) and the combination of sounds makes indeed a huge difference for the groove.
I guess this is the reason why FX like CamelSpace can quickly transform an absolutely rigid drum pattern to something grooving a lot.

Here are my questions to the D16 developpers:
I would like to know if from the developper point of view, it makes a difference triggering from the host or using the internal sequencer?
And if yes, does it have to do with some of the things mentioned above?
How would you compare the timing / grooving behaviour of Drumazon/Nepheton/Phoscyon in these three situations:
1. Internal sequencer, internal sync
2. Internal Sequencer, external sync
3. Host mode

Personally I hear no differences between these three modes.

Best regards

Shy
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:04 am

Post by Shy » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:25 am

Less talk, more samples. If you can post some sample, from the Drumtraks for example, in wav or a lossless format, there would be no need to talk much about feelings etc. We could simply examine what's going on. I'll even point to a place you can upload to.

teacue
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 9:20 am

Post by teacue » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:41 am

Shy wrote:Less talk, more samples. If you can post some sample, from the Drumtraks for example, in wav or a lossless format, there would be no need to talk much about feelings etc. We could simply examine what's going on. I'll even point to a place you can upload to.
Well my intention was in no way to compare older hardware to Nepheton/Drumazon.
I love Nepheton/Drumazon and to my ears they really groove and have a marvellous timing.
I am really very very glad about D16 plugs.

What I wanted to compare is the behaviour in the differents play mode from Nepheton/Drumazon and I only just wanted to know, out of curiosity, if from the developper side there would/could be any difference between these three play mode.
As I previously mentioned I cant hear any difference and probably my question is pointless, but I am just curious ;)

What I wrote at the beginning of my post was only a kind of introduction to situate my question.
As you say it was probably too much talk ;)

BTW my old "SCI Drumtraks" is since a long time well packed and put aside in the loft :)

Best regards

Alientrancemaster
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:44 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

Post by Alientrancemaster » Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:43 pm

Blah
you can never have too much info - you have made yourself quite clear.

I too would be interested in the response. I know there is a humungous difference due to a/d or d/a converters on the final sound of hard vs soft instruments.

I use OP and there are several resolutions to choose (ppq) for midi timing, the higher the res the more 'accurate' the timings, and the more cpu gets eaten.

Look forward to developer feedback.
In Space No One Can Hear Your 303
Peace, Luv and Aciiid

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Jacek@d16
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:34 am
Location: Katowice/Poland
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Re: Internal mode or Host mode?

Post by Jacek@d16 » Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:16 am

teacue wrote:How would you compare the timing / grooving behaviour of Drumazon/Nepheton/Phoscyon in these three situations:
1. Internal sequencer, internal sync
2. Internal Sequencer, external sync
3. Host mode

Personally I hear no differences between these three modes.
Because there is no difference :)
If a host has a good timing then everything is exactly the same (host mode/internal).
Personally i think that "magic shuffle" etc. is some kind of voodoo - exactly the same as "warm" sound of tube distortion compared do transistors or even dsp distortion. The only difference is that for tube distortion you must wait until right temperature haha - useless crap i think ;)
Everything can be simulated...

The most important thing is PLACEBO of using hardware. I feel completely different when i play with real 909 and with Drumazon - it's understood, but i know that the sound is exactly the same.
The other thing is that in older machines the timing isn't quite accurate, but the differences are so small that you just cannot hear it (there are only few situations when it is audiable)

Just think about eg. Nepheton as a dsp hardware with real knobs, buttons and flashing diodes... can you imagine? - this is what i'm talking about.

Kind regards,
Jacek
Plugins sound master

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