waiting for AU plugs so long time and now it's not working

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earlgreen
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waiting for AU plugs so long time and now it's not working

Post by earlgreen » Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:16 am

Hey folks at d16 Group,

I really love your work and your plugs. I got the total bundle and was looking forward to AU plugs to be released so darn inpationed. Now that I installed AUs of Nepheton and Drumazone they seem not to work right.

My System:
I got a iMac 20" bought in Dec 2007, 2,4 GHz core2duo, 2GB RAM, I am running 10.5.7 work with Logic Studio. All d16 plug releases earlier, which were not released as AU, I ran via Kore 2 as VST. Everything was fine, programming patterns, save them and after restart Logic all setups were the same as they were before. But at that time as also with my new AU plugs now, I was not able to save my settings on sounds.

concerning my problems on new AU plug nepheton:
I programmed some patterns in host mode yesterday. Saved each pattern and also saved my preset, I used #16 being an unused one.
I stoped working on that project and shut my Mac down.

This morning I opened it up again and Nepheton looked like the screenshot I made:

Image

I had made some settings for all used instruments and outputs, had given naames to all patterns & presets. I think you know ow the GUI should look like after reopening, so you know what I mean.

As it looks not the same I can not tell, if settings changed or not, sounds the same while listening to it.

2 things I also need some help on:
1) Why can I not save presets and after loading them into a default Nepheton nobs do not move.

2) Why does new AU version do not remember my settings after Mac turned off. ( se image obove)

I hope you gys can help me on this. Thanks for quick reply.
cheers & keep up your good work!!!
Kai

Custa
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Post by Custa » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:38 am

do you have more than 1 d16 plug in your project?
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earlgreen
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my song situations

Post by earlgreen » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:11 pm

Hi again,

as I own the total bundle I sometimes use only one plug and sometimes I use more then one. But the same plug I usually use only once in the same song. Diffrent with other plugs but as I use stepsequence programming within the d16 drum machines and the bass line, I can do what erver I need in one channel strip.

This certain thing happende when I updated my stuff to the latest versions. I really do not know what that might have to do with using plugs in multiple ways.

I really need some help here please. Today I am going to reinstall the plugs to see if something went wrong on that.

Please try to reply as fast as possible.
cheers
Kai

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Sebastian@d16
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Post by Sebastian@d16 » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:22 pm

Hi,

Do You use two our plug-ins in the same project (not necessarily the same) ? and if it happens when You insert Nepheton only to empty project, make some changes in patterns, then save project and reload it?

Best regards,
Sebastian

earlgreen
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projekt discription with new AU plugs

Post by earlgreen » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:03 pm

Hi Sebsatian,
I started a new project after installing Nepheton, Drumazon and Nithonat and restarting my system. Bevor installing I removed all 3 old components and VSTs. I keept the ini file so I do not have to use key file again.

this is an overview of my settings so far. There is some automation made, but I think you can leave that out of focus.

I started working on Friday. Used an empty preset #16 and named it.
Saved the preset and started my work on my drums. After that I saved the preset again.

I put some patterns on note C1, D1 and E1 as seen on the pic. gave each preset a name and saved them.

I reopened Logic Saturday morning and Nepheton looked like my pic above.
I fixed the mistake by reloading Nepheton into the plug slot and loaded my preset and pattern. Preset nobs did not turn to the position I programmed, therefore I did all settings over.

I used Nithronats Kick to trigger a bass (ducking).

Than I wantet to programm a second snare so I loaded Nithronat into a different new channel srip. Logic crashed (pressing cmd-alt-esc = programm does not answere). I pressed the quit now button. No crash file for this, so I have do do all the work I made on Saturday all over.

Point is that when I loaded 2nd Nithronat into that new channel strip it looked the same as Nepheton did on my pic above. And yes I run more than one plug of d16 in my songs, but mostly only one kind at a time. = Song: use Nepheton, maybe Phoscyon, maybe Nithronat. As I could only use VSTs via Kore evrything exept the pattern saving worked fine. But as I want to rout sounds to their own audio output (see pic below) I am glad to have AUs now.

Please tell me what to do.
I am installing again here in a little bit and see what habbens. ;=)

cheers Kai

Image[/img]

earlgreen
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P.S. add ons deal

Post by earlgreen » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:19 pm

I got another question. I just loaded my plugs from the user area. for example Nepheton is version 1.1.2., but in the add on section there is a RC Version 1.1.3. ?? I would be verry happy if someone can explain the use of RC versions and how I can tell what is the latest functional plug in to install..

millions of thanks for your help!
Kai

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Sebastian@d16
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Post by Sebastian@d16 » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:22 pm

Hi,

All the problems are caused by the programming framework we've been using since Devastor AU, and the problems appear when You have more then one our plug-in in a single project. E.G when You insert Drumazon, and then insert Decimort, Drumazon stops working. It processes the sound, but the GUI doesn't respond to any action from user. Saving the project and reloading it doesn't help. We're investigating this issue right now and we're going prepare the updates, but this problem won't be solved quickly.

We use the old revision of framework, because the latest one doesn't handle old Carbon based GUI (Cocoa only), and if we had updated the framework to the latest version, our plug-ins would have stopped working at all under Ableton Live and few other host applications that utilize the old Carbon engine. The good news is that Snow Leopard's support for Carbon will be limited and the next version (after Snow Leopard) will be completely only Cocoa based. And all companies making hosting application will be forced to switch to Cocoa GUI.

I'm sorry I have no better news for You,

Regarding to Your question about 1.1.3 RC, it's VST windows version only prepared especially for users of Sonar 8, it resolves small issue with not visible outputs under this host. We decided to not make an official release because of that - only windows VST had changed.

Best regards,
Sebastian

Custa
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Post by Custa » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:53 pm

Sebastian@d16 wrote:Hi,

All the problems are caused by the programming framework we've been using since Devastor AU, and the problems appear when You have more then one our plug-in in a single project. E.G when You insert Drumazon, and then insert Decimort, Drumazon stops working. It processes the sound, but the GUI doesn't respond to any action from user. Saving the project and reloading it doesn't help. We're investigating this issue right now and we're going prepare the updates, but this problem won't be solved quickly.

We use the old revision of framework, because the latest one doesn't handle old Carbon based GUI (Cocoa only), and if we had updated the framework to the latest version, our plug-ins would have stopped working at all under Ableton Live and few other host applications that utilize the old Carbon engine. The good news is that Snow Leopard's support for Carbon will be limited and the next version (after Snow Leopard) will be completely only Cocoa based. And all companies making hosting application will be forced to switch to Cocoa GUI.

I'm sorry I have no better news for You,

Regarding to Your question about 1.1.3 RC, it's VST windows version only prepared especially for users of Sonar 8, it resolves small issue with not visible outputs under this host. We decided to not make an official release because of that - only windows VST had changed.

Best regards,
Sebastian
This is really not a good day guys :(
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earlgreen
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Post by earlgreen » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:29 pm

Sebastian@d16 wrote:Hi,

All the problems are caused by the programming framework we've been using since Devastor AU, and the problems appear when You have more then one our plug-in in a single project. E.G when You insert Drumazon, and then insert Decimort, Drumazon stops working. It processes the sound, but the GUI doesn't respond to any action from user. Saving the project and reloading it doesn't help. We're investigating this issue right now and we're going prepare the updates, but this problem won't be solved quickly.

We use the old revision of framework, because the latest one doesn't handle old Carbon based GUI (Cocoa only), and if we had updated the framework to the latest version, our plug-ins would have stopped working at all under Ableton Live and few other host applications that utilize the old Carbon engine. The good news is that Snow Leopard's support for Carbon will be limited and the next version (after Snow Leopard) will be completely only Cocoa based. And all companies making hosting application will be forced to switch to Cocoa GUI.

I'm sorry I have no better news for You,

Best regards,
Sebastian
Hi Sebastian,
I am quite dissapointed now, but as I know you guys are working hard on running plugs, I am going to wait a little more. I might change my host application and switch to Live, but thats too expensive for now.
So I do depend on AUs in order to be able to use d16 plugs the way I want.
Output routing is just one concern on that.

Let me reflect:
I can only use one d16 plug in at a time.
Does that also mean I can only use only one at all in one project?
I used to programm quite a lot with your plugs especially effect pulugs. Sometimes I got more than 3 or 5 diffrent channels set whith one or same kind of effect plug in. I did not try this yet, but if it is that way ...

I don`t know... Why did you release AUs when they are not working yet?
What to do in future? Do you get to solve these topics this year? It does not make sence to keep the total bundle if I can not use all plugs as I want to. Sorry for writing this, but VSTs are not the answer. *smile*

Your issue about Snow Leopard and this Carbon or Cocoa GUI things, I don't get. I am just a Mac user and do not know anything about things behind the surface, sorry... I appreciate your work, impatiently waiting on AUs to be finished.

Kai

P.S. By the way am I the only Logic user that got this problem?

Custa
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Post by Custa » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:54 pm

earlgreen wrote:
P.S. By the way am I the only Logic user that got this problem?
Nope we are all in the same boat. After waiting near enough 3 years I am now told that the possibility to get any work done in Logic is not gonna happen because of the use of a (Carbon) framework that Apple had told developers to move away from long ago.

Pretty dissapointed.... The waiting continues :( It also upsets me to see yet another d16 plug surface (although I am interested in the result of it) without the current ones working in one of the most popular DAW's.
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Sebastian@d16
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Post by Sebastian@d16 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:38 am

@earlgreen: I'm terribly sorry about that. I think this issue will be solved much quicker than porting our plug-ins to AU. As I said in one of the posts in a topic regarding to similar issue. It'll take about 2 months to switch completely to new GUI engines and new programming framework we use here. Thank You in advance for Your patience.

We hoped we released plug-ins that work, but sudennly appeared that framework we use start to cause problems when we updated it, so we decided to revert (go back) to ealier revisions - I don't know if You remember there was a postponement of AU release just before the premiere. Since then this programming framework has been improved enough to handle Cocoa and Carbon correctly and now we're ready to move forward again, so this action requires time here. Sorry.

Best regards,
Sebastian

rob_fx
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Post by rob_fx » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:42 pm

FYI: I've just reproduced this issue with Nepheton at home using a fresh project with Ableton Live v8.0.4 and Nepheton v1.1.2 + (some)Decimorts + (some)Toraverbs.

I ran Quartz Debug and could see that Nephaton's interface widgets were redrawing as I moused over them, but it looks like the internal state of the plug-in is not flushing to the UI, nor are UI messages being passed back to the plug-in.

I've noticed that Ableton Live 8 and Apple Logic 9 are particular good at throttling back their graphics thread when the audio thread is at capacity, to the extent that messages in the GUI event loop get dropped. I wonder if this is a factor with this issue? The silverline plug-ins do seem to redraw a lot of their windows during normal playback.
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earlgreen
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Post by earlgreen » Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:41 pm

Hey Sebastian and all @ d16,
I'd like to know how your stand is on fixing the Carbon/Coca issue.
Is there any light at the end?
Short answere would be nice...
kind regards
Kai

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Sebastian@d16
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Post by Sebastian@d16 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:05 am

Hi,

We've fixed it already, new version of framework, few improvements and recompiling on Snow Leopard have solved it. I hope within days first updated plug-in (Toraverb) will be released. All remaining plug-ins will be updated one by one in very short periods of time.

We have one small glitch here to fix, that appears on Tiger only.

Best regards,
Sebastian

earlgreen
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Post by earlgreen » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:19 pm

Hey Sebastian and all @ d16,

sounds great!! Toraverb is the first plug I still have to buy, but I will, and I am looking forward to your soloutions! Keep up your good work, I appreciate it !!!
Thanks for your quick answere!
Cheers
Kai ;=))

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